[Apt-Rpm] Apt-rpm on embedded Linux, is it impossible?

js jsh at interlug-fr.org
Sun Jan 13 23:20:13 PST 2008


Quan phongvan wrote:
> Dear Jean-seb,
> It's so kind of you to answer all of my issues with very useful
> informations. I really appreciate it.
> But I still have some things from your reply, and I hope that you can
> clear them for me, thank you in advance.
> 1. You mentioned: "No, it use apt only, personally I hate yum and
> don't understand why create an other tool for rpm based distro, apt
> was already here and do the work well; and the best,". I think that
> while yum has released its stable version so long time ago, apt-rpm is
> still under developing (testing version). In addition, yum has a huge
> developer resource behind, if we consider update tool from business
> point of view, can yum become a update tool candidate?

Linux, the glibc, gcc, KDE are still in development too :)
apt is very very stable and do the job nicely for years (I use the old
apt from conectiva, before to update to the Lorg version).
That's not because apt is still in devel than it is not ready for
production.


> 2. About yum and python, I was already clear, thank you for your
> model, it's so easy for me to understand the problem. If you don't
> mind, have you ever tried smartpm as a update tool on your embedded
> system (smartpm similar to yum and apt-rpm, it uses python also), if
> yes do you have any advice for me about smartpm?

smartrpm??? I never test it.
apt was used by conectiva linux for the whole distro, but smartrpm not
.... and smartrpm was too young 3 years ago.
Maybe now, you can take time to test it and see if it is the good tool
for you.
To me, an important thing was to have one update tool for both Debian
and Rpms distro; so ... apt was used :)
yum was ... sorry but, a real crap (I tested urpmi, apt and yum)

> 3. My target system run on a very tiny Linux clone (mini-ram embeeded
> Linux - RPM system, like VxWorks), it lacks development tool such as
> gcc and XWindow, so will apt-rpm run well on these systems?.
I think, yes.
You have some specs??


> Beside, our update tool connect Internet through firewall for security
> purpose to do system-update, so we must consider some security issues
> such as: session hijack or disguise of server. Do you have any
> comments for me with apt-rpm to deal with these problems?
All the rpms are signed, and don't install if the rpm is not signed with
the right gpg key :)
This is in the apt-get lua config (see /etc/apt/apt.conf :

Scripts
{
  Init { "gpg-import.lua"; };
  PM
  {
    Pre { "gpg-check.lua"; };
    Post { "upgradevirt.lua"; };
  };
  AptGet
  {
    Upgrade { "upgradevirt.lua"; };
    DistUpgrade {"upgradevirt.lua"; };
    Install::SelectPackage { "upgradevirt.lua"; };
    Install::PreResolve { "upgradevirt.lua"; };
    Install::TranslateArg { "upgradevirt.lua"; };
  };
  Synaptic
  {
    DistUpgrade { "upgradevirt.lua"; };
  }
}


So, if a bad guy changes one or more rpms, they will not be installed,
and the only way to install them will be to deactivate the gpg-check.lua
script
or use the command rpm -ivh yourRPM.rpm by hand.

Regards

js.



> Thank you very much.
> Hope to see your reply soon.
> Best regards,
> Nguyen Anh Quan.
>
>
> On Jan 13, 2008 12:09 AM, jean-seb <jsh at interlug-fr.org
> <mailto:jsh at interlug-fr.org>> wrote:
>
>     Quan phongvan a écrit :
>     > Dear Jean-seb,
>     > It's so nice for me to hear that from you. If you don't mind,
>     can you
>     > give me more advices for my issues:
>     > 1. For your mentioned RHEL clone that you used on your embedded
>     > system, Does it have yum as RPM packages management systems. If yes,
>     > can apt-rpm beats yum as a update tool?
>
>     it is use in Debian and Rpm based distro, so when you swith into
>     Debian
>     and Rpm distro, no problem: apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade
>     ... :)
>
>
>     > 2. As you mentioned "apt is faster than light , and it don't need
>     > python; so the memory it use is not a big issue.", I think
>     apt-rpm has
>     > a big dependency list (especially when I compiled apt-rpm from
>     source
>     > code, it required a lot of packages such as: beecrypt, zlib,...).
>     > About python, does it really become the most biggest obstacle
>     for yum
>     > or even smartpm (an update tool for RPM packages similar to yum and
>     > apt-rpm).
>     Yum use python and a lot of sub-modules (how it query the rpm
>     database?);
>     the main problem I see: you need a pre-interpreter to run yum:
>     So you can resume it by:
>     kernel -> glibc -> python -> pre-compiling -> yum+ extra modules
>
>     for apt:
>     kernel -> glibc -> libs (stdc++, zlib) -> apt
>
>     Pre-compiled software runs always faster ( C and C++ are faster than
>     Python).
>
>     If you have time: you can test this 'theory' with gdb and see what
>     program (yum or apt) use the most of memory :)
>
>
>     > 3. In addition, can you give more details why did you mention
>     about HP
>     > Server ProLiant in: "it is faster that the same version in Proliant
>     > Servers ! (maybe because /var is in ram?)".
>
>     We use one distro (Gralinux AS 3; a RHEL clone with some tweaks;
>     webmin,
>     openvpn, more iptables modules etc..) on both Embedded systems and
>     Servers: the binaries are strictly the same.
>     we have a lot of HP proliant and when i apply updates, apt is far
>     faster
>     on embedded devices than on the big Proliant :) : a read/write issue i
>     think ;)
>     We all know than hard drive are ..  slow :-/ , specially with Raid
>     5 ...
>
>     > Hope to receive your advice soon,
>     > Best regards,
>     > Nguyen Anh Quan.
>
>     Regards
>
>     js.
>
>     Air-Austral flight Company.
>     http://www.air-austral.com
>
>     >
>     > On Jan 11, 2008 7:13 PM, jean-seb <jsh at interlug-fr.org
>     <mailto:jsh at interlug-fr.org>
>     > <mailto: jsh at interlug-fr.org <mailto:jsh at interlug-fr.org>> > wrote:
>     >
>     >     Quan phongvan a écrit :
>     >     > Dear friends,
>     >     >
>     >     > I've studied apt-rpm as a candidate update tool for RPM
>     packages
>     >     > management system, because my target device run on
>     embedded Linux
>     >     > (like Vxworks - an RTOS of windriver).
>     >     > If you don't mind, I hope that someone has tried using
>     apt-rpm on an
>     >     > embedded system such as VxWorks and can share me his
>     experiences. I
>     >     > really appreciate it.
>     >     > Thank you for your attention,
>     >     > Nguyen Anh Quan.
>     >     > --
>     >     > Never walk alone
>     >     >
>     >
>     >     I use apt in a RHEL clone for embedded systems (openvpn,
>     firewall and
>     >     tons of stuffs like snort etc..):
>     >     it runs on a Via C3 533Mhz, 512Mo ram (256 for the system
>     memory, and
>     >     256 for /var and /tmp in read/write mode);
>     >     the rest of the system is on a CF 512mo in read only (ext3 with
>     >     some tweaks)
>     >
>     >     apt is faster than light , and it don't need python; so the
>     memory it
>     >     use is not a big issue.
>     >
>     >     it is faster that the same version in Proliant Servers ! (maybe
>     >     because
>     >     /var is in ram?)
>     >
>     >     A good choice for a "big" embedded system.
>     >
>     >
>     >     Regards.
>     >
>     >     js
>     >
>     >     Air-Austral flight Company.
>     >     http://www.air-austral.com
>     >
>     >
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>     > --
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